From Startup To Sale | A Podcast For MSP's By MSP's

S2E3: Building an Effective Sales and Marketing Program

Sean Littman — Wed, 05 Feb 2025 13:15:00 GMT

I’m cautious about interviewing companies that provide services to MSPs. After all, you get bombarded by sales content day in and day out, and I don’t want to add to the noise. But when I interviewed Megan Killion of MKC Agency in Orlando, a revenue consultancy specializing in scaling MSPs and other channel companies, I was super impressed by the combined sales/marketing paradigm that she uses. Megan champions ethical marketing practices, elevating marginalized talent, and empowering businesses to thrive in competitive markets. She also has an offer for our podcast listeners: 20% off the first 4 months of her newest program IF you complete this worksheet before your first call with her (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gmqzRXv54EdZBFGtUxZAnqc-wLpMaIjDHIpv7H9tZFY/edit?usp=sharing, NOTE that you will need to request access). Here's what I learned in this episode:

Why sales needs to be a function of your business instead of just outsourced
MKC's value add is helping create a scalable internal program
How Megan designed her sales offerings, and how you should too
Megan's take on hiring sales talent the wrong way
Megan's secret sauce for finding sales talent the right (and easy) way
Can technical people become effective sales people
Why technical owners are unlikely to create effective sales organizations without help
Does the hunters vs farmers framework make sense
Prediction, project planning, copywriting, social skills, time management: these skills and more are required to be an effective sales resource
What size MSP is best positioned to benefit from her services
What constitutes ready for growth
Embracing the 'suck' of the middle (organic growth is not easy)
You must understand your clients to build messaging
How will AI affect your sales process
The difference between inbound and outbound and how they go together

Financial Modeling Service provides M&A and Intermediary services to IT companies. As a former IT company owner, Jeff Greenspan understands your business and will work with you to achieve an optimal result based on your specific needs. You can reach Jeff at Jeff.Greenspan@financialmodelingservice.com or through his contact form at https://financialmodelingservice.com/contact-us/.

S2E1: A Billion Dollar Startup

Sean Littman — Wed, 15 Jan 2025 13:00:00 GMT

S2E2 features a conversation with the US team of Ionos, a hosting and cloud provider looking to compete with Azure, AWS, and Google Cloud. I'd heard that Ionos was a billion dollar company, but when I checked their market cap in late December, it was just over $3B! What's up with that? So I sat down with Seth Helgesen, Zachary Watson, and Brian Wick to get a better understanding of Ionos's potential value to you. Takeaways from the episode include :

What are the key Ionos differentiators
Is any hosting equipment required
Where are the colo facilities
Is redundancy available
Ease of migrating to the Ionos platform
What security features are built in
Who does Ionos integrate with
How does pricing work
Direct and distribution channels
Partner/Reseller programs with marketing dollars
What does the roadmap look like
Support for monolithic legacy applications
Object storage just launched
A special offer for podcast listeners

S2E1: An International MSP

Sean Littman — Wed, 01 Jan 2025 13:00:00 GMT

With his company Olive and Goose, Ankur Kothari provides proof that you really can run an MSP from anywhere. From his not-quite-humble beginnings at Microsoft, he's built an impressive three-division IT company headquartered in Seattle but with an international clientele. And when he's not strategizing, he's enjoying the intellectual flavors of Barcelona, learning both Spanish and Catalan while connecting with the vibrant but quite different European startup community. Takeaways from the episode include:

What roles does Ankur play in his company, and how that differs from expectation
Europe is ahead of the US from a sustainability prespective. How might that affect US MSP's relationships with their clients in the near future?
Be faster to hire, and faster to change
The most common error made by young MSPs
How Olive and Goose drives organic growth
How to create a beachhead in a new area
The hunter/farmer model
The opportunity that AI presents for MSPs who are able to assist their customers with adoption
Ankur's take on rollups for higher EBIDTA multiples
Growth opportunities, no matter the type, must be evaluated to ensure that they offer value to all of the firms stakeholders

Ep. 14 : A tight affiliation of 170 MSPs

Sean Littman — Wed, 18 Dec 2024 13:00:00 GMT

One way that MSPs increase their scope is by joining an affiliation group. There are many forms, and the levels and types of integration with other firms varies. In this episode, we interview Tim Conkle, whose company The 20 consists of both an MSP alliance with (currently) 170 members, and an MSP rollup that just completed their 37th acquisition. Tim is an interesting and passionate MSP, and this episode provides the opportunity to learn:

How does The 20 work
What are the three things MSPs need to do to be truly successful
What does 'better together' mean, and why
How Tim thinks about economies of scale
Removing friction and technology debt
Running both Connectwise and Kaseya inside the box
What tools they've homegrown and why
2% of helpdesk calls are not the people who they say they are!
Benefits of joining the affiliation

Ep. 13 : Dominating a Mid-size Market

Sean Littman — Wed, 20 Nov 2024 13:00:00 GMT

There is incredible variety in the MSP space! Today's guest, Brian Strong, isn't buying and he isn't selling, he's just trying to run a top-notch MSP. Brian is the CEO of Ten Hats in Knoxville, TN, a company wholly owned by a large local healthcare provider. A significant pivot was required when he came on board, which presents an interesting opportunity to learn:

How an economic upheaval presents both downsides and upsides
How personal disasters also present downsides and upsides
What it takes to turn around a company hemorrhaging cash
The risks of losing clients outside of your geographic market
Why Ten Hats uses a 'building block' approach to providing services
Don't micromanage people, micromanage the numbers
The critical CEO-level task set
When to add new tech people, and how they grow specialists
Which metrics Ten Hats looks at
Why go to peer groups? To see what you're doing wrong!
How to evaluate new technologies
What changes does Brian see coming to the industry

Ep. 12 : Exit - Stage RIGHT! Optimizing your exit.

Sean Littman — Wed, 06 Nov 2024 13:00:00 GMT

In this episode I've recorded and discuss the five key actions that you should take to be prepared for a sale regardless of the timing. These steps ensure that you will be able to optimize your exit, whatever that means for you. I've also broken down each step into its own short video and I'm publishing these on my YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/@FMS-Jeff (look under Playlists). In this episode we cover:

Creating value by choosing the right business structure
Understanding and communicating how your business creates value
Eliminating bad habits that decrease exit valuation
Removing impediments to a sale
Preparing for due diligence

Ep. 11 : A Conversation with Jeffrey Newton and James Farrow at Cyft.ai

Sean Littman — Wed, 16 Oct 2024 12:00:00 GMT

Today we take our second look at an AI-based technolgy available now for MSPs to work more efficiently. Our eleventh episode features Jeffrey Newton, CRO and recovering MSP, and James Farrow, CEO of Cyft. Cyft is focused on applying AI to make MSPs more profitable by solving unacknowledged problems within the four walls of the MSP. I was particularly impressed with their ease of implementation, but even more impressed with their long-term vision, which you will have to listen to! In this episode we cover:

What key problems does Cyft solve
What Cyft does
Cyft's 'no-PSA touch required' interface for data input
How Cyft supports higher profitability
Cyft's high accuracy level
Cyft's 'Speak It, Review It, Submit It' process
What training is required for your staff
How quickly Cyft can be implemented
How much does Cyft cost
Cyft is an AI on-ramp for MSPs
Roadmap includes AI-based contextualized data out
Cyft is looking for MSP investors

Ep. 10 : A Conversation with James Allen from Pia.ai

Sean Littman — Wed, 02 Oct 2024 12:00:00 GMT

Everyone's heard about artificial intelligence, and today we start looking at two AI-based technolgies that are available now for MSPs to work more efficiently. Our tenth episode features James Allen from Pia.ai. Pia was born when a large Australian IT firm started running tickets through a small language model, and it has evolved into a combination AI / automation tool that reads tickets and moves them forward as far as possible using automation. Pia currently supports over 60 different types of tickets. For our listeners, Pia is extending their Q3 50%-off onboarding / 25%-off platform fee offer through the end of November. You will learn about:

What metric clearly presages profitability
On average, how many endpoints can a help desk tech support
When is the best time to implement a tool like Pia
What Pia does and how it works
Pricing models
How Pia support rapid economies of scale during acquisitions
What does the client onboarding process look like
What are the most common types of tickets that Pia automates
Dispatchers can close tickets
How clients can initiate onboarding through Smartforms, including approval processes
Pia's roadmap

Ep. 9 : A Conversation with Paul Daigle from BizAdvisoryBoard.com

Sean Littman — Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:00:00 GMT

Our ninth episode features Paul Daigle from BizAdvisoryBoard. Paul is an 'old school' IT guy who started off in software development and morphed over time into an MSP. Early on he built many of the types of tools that MSPs use today, so he understands the needs of MSPs at a deep level! He's also acquired and divested numerous companies. BizAdvisoryBoard offers a free (and paid) tool for MSPs interested in their valuation and growth. Use coupon code 'FMSVal24' to get the free version and code 'FMSAcc24' to get 10% off the paid version.

You can reach Paul directly at Paul.Daigle@BizAdvisoryBoard.com, 407-461-0061.

In today's show, you will learn about:

What do your clients really want from you?
How do you get vendors to finance new offerings?
The best, if not the only, reason to do project work.
What happens to multiples when you break $100m?
Why MSPs without cybersecurity will go extinct.
How compliance requirements like PCI and HIPAA are driving the industry.
Why Paul thinks the small MSP (under $2m) will be driven out of business within 2 years.
Federal contractors take note: what are DoD CMMC scores?
Who's driving the business train, the government or the insurance companies? Or both!
What is the MSP Business Evaluator, and what can the free and Accelerator versions tell an MSP?

Ep. 8 : A Conversation with Rob Scott From Monjur With Guests Glenn Porter and Jacob Schultz

Sean Littman — Wed, 04 Sep 2024 12:00:00 GMT

Our eighth episode features Rob Scott from Monjur, plus two of his clients! Rob is an attorney with exceptional experience in computer law, and he's turned the table on the IT space by becoming an MSP for MSPs! As a business broker, the first thing I check with new clients is their service contract. With Monjur, I know that your contracts are always as good as they can possibly be. Beyond contracts, Monjur offers M&A representation and a full suite of corporate services.

You will learn about:

How to collapse the sales and contracting process into one online step
Monjur's two pricing tiers, with a bump at $1.5m revenue
What problems does Monjur solve for recurring revenue businesses
Why federal and state data privacy laws affect MSPs
Common mistakes that MSPs make with their agreements
Why agreements that apply in the general marketplace don't map well to managed services
How to avoid continuous margin erosion
Early termination fees vs liquidated damages fees
Aligning indemnity clauses in your MSA with the provisions of your insurance policy
Why it's critical to get your contracts right BEFORE you consider a company sale
HIPAA, PCI, and DSS - Oh my!
Redirecting liability to your 3rd party providers
Rob's risk paradigm, a MUST LISTEN for every MSP

Ep. 7 : A Conversation with Josh Kotler

Sean Littman — Wed, 21 Aug 2024 12:00:00 GMT

Josh Kotler is a veteran industy road warrior. He started a network integration firm, Datatrends Florida, in 1996, and joined Western Digitech as a minority partner two years later. Within 18 months they had added 22 people! He continued to grow the business thru 2019 when he sold to CompassMSP. After the integration was complete, Josh became the COO and then CEO of the company. As CEO, his focus on M&A resulted in four acquisitions within a year. Since leaving CompassMSP, Josh has been working with private equity to build yet another MSP! His depth and breadth will help you learn:

How peer group membership can prompt/accelerate organizational change
How TruMethods enabled him to triple his business, relatively stress free
Real company improvements start when you recognize that your baby is ugly
The pain of transitioning from break-fix to managed services.
Why holding the reins too tightly prevents your business from growing
Why its better to be good at any tool than to have the 'right' tool. For M&A, tools alignment is not important.
It's easier to integrate companies that have aligned service packaging
An organic growth engine might increases your M&A value a full turn, whereas a novel product area might add a half turn.
Why smaller MSPs are commanding higher valuations today. [Oh wait, Jeff said this!]
The key to transitioning from a small tech company, and what to do if you can't
Thoughts on security risk.
Why valuations for MSPs will be decreasing over the next 5 years.
Why taking it easy ain't that easy!
How and why 'merge & sell' usually goes wrong.

Ep. 6 : A Conversation with Willis from Cantey Tech

Sean Littman — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 12:00:00 GMT

In my experieence it is rare to find an MSP owner as calm and thoughtful as Willis Cantey of Cantey Tech Consulting. When you hear Willis describe the amount of effort that went into both his quest for organic growth and his expansion through acquisition, you'll understand why he's been sucessful! In this, our 6th episode of 'From Startup to Sale: a podcast by MSPs for MSPs,' you will learn:

The effort required to find and the importance of finding the right financial partner for growth.
Why a focus on tech may be less important than a focus on growing the business through consulting, sales, and management.
The first acquisition is an experiment. You need a plan, but expect problems.
When and why to let people go
Security needs to be integral to your offering
How the insurance companies are driving cybersecurity
What role should AI play in your business
Why it's important to attend industry events
How peer groups help you set and meet goals
Never let go of the goal for organic growth
What Cantey Tech looks for in an acquisition partner
The importance of neutral legal documents
Advice for owners who are 1-2 years from retiring

Ep. 5 : A Conversation Kyle Christensen from K7 and Empath

Sean Littman — Wed, 03 Jul 2024 18:40:05 GMT

In this episode we talk to industry wunderkind and veteran Kyle Christensen who, at age 16, was tasked with rolling out Geek Squad! Kyle has worked for and with too many MSPs to enumerate, and he is now focusing on building out Empath, an educational system for MSP owners and their teams to help them upscale their career paths. Kyle can be reached at kyle@empathmsp.com.

In this podcast you will learn:

How K7 Leadership is morphing into the new brand, empath
How long it takes to turn a teenage geek into a computer consultant
Determining what KPIs to measure
The bottleneck to hypergrowth
Risks for MSP Startups
Why to avoid marketing spend
Mistakes Kyle has seen

Ep. 4 : A Conversation Stephen Buyze from AG MSP Coaching

Sean Littman — Wed, 03 Jul 2024 12:00:00 GMT

In our fourth episode, instead of focusing on another large MSP with an appetite for smaller MSPs, we thought we'd provide some food for growth. But not necessarily sales growth! Stephen Buyze from Advanced Global MSP Coaching differs from many other consultants in his focus on delivery optimization to improve profitability. This, in turn, drives enterprise value growth. In this episode you'll learn:

When to hire a service coordinator
When to bring in an outsourced NOC
What is the best size for a tech team
What structure is best suited for early stage growth.
KPIs for service companies
Common mistakes MSPs make
How to deal with the conflict between project work and MRR
Hiring ideas, and bringing young staff from intern to level 3

Ep. 3 : A Conversation With Christopher Vollmond-Carstens AKA CVC From Ntiva

Sean Littman — Wed, 19 Jun 2024 13:00:00 GMT

Episode 3 of 'From Startup to Sale: A Podcast by MSPs for MSPs' features Christopher Vollmond-Carstens (affectionately known as CVC) from Ntiva, a DC-based service provider that has been acquiring other MSPs since 2016.

The company has bolted on 15 companies since then, and CVC became responsible for acquisitions at Ntiva in early 2021.

The episode will be available on Spotify and all of your favorite streaming platforms at 9AM on Wednesday, June 19th.

You will learn:

What does Ntiva look for in an acquisition?

Tips for companies thinking about an exit strategy..

The importance of being prepared, both operationally and emotionally

What is working capital, and what's its role in an acquisition.

Ep. 2 : A Conversation With David Williams and Tom Raad

Sean Littman — Wed, 05 Jun 2024 13:00:00 GMT

Episode 2 of 'From Startup to Sale: A Podcast by MSPs for MSPs' features David Williams and Tom Raad from Courser, a family of IT service providers headquartered in Greenville, SC. David is responsible for acquisitions and Tom was the president of their first acquisition. The episode will be available on Spotify and all of your favorite streaming platforms at 9AM on Wednesday, June 5th. You will learn:

What does Courser look for in an acquisition?

How Courser integrates its family of companies.

The value of peer groups

The strategic benefits to your clients and your team of the right acquisition partner.

The emotional aspects of being acquired, and of joining a larger group.

The critical number to know before you think about exiting.

Enjoy the show and don't forget to subscribe!

Ep. 1 A Conversation With Peter Kujawa

Sean Littman — Wed, 22 May 2024 12:00:00 GMT

In this, our first episode, we speak with Peter Kujawa at Service Leadership, Inc.. S-L provides MSPs with performance diagnostics (metrics) and performance improvement methods and tools that promote growth and profitability.

No owner that I’ve spoken to has regretted engaging with them. You can connect with Peter on LinkedIN, and you can contact

Service Leadership at info@service-leadership.com or fill out their contact form at https://www.service-leadership.com/contact/.

Please mention that the MSP Podcast referred you. Thank you.

Welcome to From Startup To Sale Ep.0

Sean Littman — Wed, 01 May 2024 12:42:09 GMT

Welcome to “From Startup to Sale – A Podcast by MSPs for MSPs,” hosted by Jeff Greenspan, an MSP who sold his business and now provides M&A and advisory services to other IT company owners. Jeff was a full-on techie: he graduated with an engineering degree from The Johns Hopkins University in 1985 and started his business in 1986 providing custom software design and development services. That business morphed over 27 years until he sold it as a Managed Services practice in 2013. Since then he’s gotten an MS in Finance from the Warrington School at the University of Florida, and his M&A work and this podcast are all designed to give back to the MSP community.

In this podcast, Jeff talks to all kinds of MSP road warriors, and you’ll learn something that will impact your business in every episode! You’ll learn about operational maturity level and what it means to be best in class. You’ll hear what several large national MSPs are looking for when they consider an acquisition. Jeff talks to the MSP consulting companies, and they’ll tell you what mistakes they see most frequently and how to fix them. He also talks to owners who’ve sold their company to benefit from their experience. Finally, he talks to people just like you to understand how they got started, what they’ve learned from their mistakes, how they are growing, and where they see the IT industry going.